Public sentiment is divided yet often leans towards supporting Japan's stance against China, driven by perceived aggression from China and historical grievances. Many express solidarity with Japan, while some worry about escalating military tensions and Japan's wartime history. Concerns surrounding Taiwan's sovereignty are prevalent, alongside calls for peaceful resolutions.

Japan

China

Taiwan

United States

Generally speaking, as long as nobody is throwing metaphorical hands, everybody in the region profits from the way it is in my view (chinese might see it differently) and hope nobody throws peace out of the window.

Coming from Poland, it was also the case for Ukraine and Russia before the war started. Entire continent was living good of peace but now both Ukraine and Russia suffer a ton in what is going to be likely known as one of the greatest geopolitical blunders and I could go for hours why (but tl:dr - Ukraine was super integrated and reconciliatory with Russia despite everything. All they had to do is not doing anything and Russia would get what they wanted with time).

In the modern age, in a war between modern and well organized countries the only winning move is not to play and the only ones winning are the one watching from the side. But due to how well-integrated current world is, there will be barely anyone left to watch from the side if China, Taiwan, US and Japan go to war.

LeMe-Two

If Taiwan being controlled by China is an existential threat to Japan; then Taiwan being controlled by USA and Japan would be even higher level threat to China. It is what it is.

afkgr

Somewhat related to this post but if you read this subreddit to get an idea of the average Chinese person politics it’s like going on r/politics to gauge American politics. I’ve worked with probably hundreds of people from China and virtually all of them have had ideals, values and priorities that are similar to westerners. Obviously different flavours of beliefs but there really isn’t that much difference between the two. I wish the government of both would stop trying to antagonise the population of both against each other for geopolitical and nationalistic benefit; it helps no one.

Edit: bruh I’m sorry I didn’t mean to start a war with my comment lmao.

Sad-Eggplant-8320

I have made this argument to so many pro-Taiwanese “independence” activists.

Taiwan is a main island &amp; several minor islands, are only 100 miles from the Chinese mainland. With easy access using medium range missiles, to the entire Southern &amp; part of the Eastern coast of China.

Taiwan is either a national security benefit, or a national security threat for China. It really comes down to this basic fact.

Taiwan is a small fish in very big Sea.

Either Taiwan is China, or Taiwan is a giant US military base. There is no such thing as Taiwanese “independence”. Either Taiwan is a satellite state for either major power.

Taiwan is China &amp; the US has no business having a client state that was once (&amp; still is) a part of China.

Taiwan is China because of serious national security interests of China &amp; cannot be separated from this geopolitical issue.

danintheoutback

中国就一直宣称台湾是中国的，不是因为江浙沪这些地方发展起来富裕了才宣称台湾是中国的。

buff_li

The issue of taiwan is not important in Chinese public opinion, and what  mainland chinese dislike is the decades long rumor and defamation of China by the taiwanese

Fast_Fruit3933

You are forgetting a important factor, that the situation is being used by US heavily for the "china bad" argument. 

Tsukee

It would be great if many chinese think like you. Unfortunately once u open douyin u see the endless shandong highschoolers wanting and asking for war

side-eye21

You missed the point of the US interest to destroy the PRC and rollback the government of China.

Its the US that suggested to Japan to take Taiwan from China in 1894.  Its the US that has been funding seccessionist movements in Taiwan, HK,  Xinjiang, and Tibet.

There's a Theory known as the Confucian Peace Theory which ia used to explain the 600 years of peace in Asia before western colonialism arrived.

If the Theory is true the reason for the heighten tension is foriegn interference.

The reason Japan even took Taiwan was because China was weak.  China was the victim of imperialism.  How is getting stronger a threat.

A Chinese diplomat raised an interesting question recently.  If German, the aggressor of WWII, is allowed to unfybwith the blessing of the West; why isn't China a victim of WWII allow to unify with the blessing of the West.

Hypocrisy? Racism?  Normalizing the US led world order?

random_agency

A country is just people living on a territory. Why not ask the people what they want and then respect that decision? 

If the people of Taiwan want to be their own country, why not respect their will? 

Why do people feel the need to annex others is beyond me. Be and let be.

Bleizy

The moment china allows separatism in one region, the west will finance it on other areas as well, this is why the Taiwan topic is so intensely fought by the PRC.

There is nothing the NATO group wants more than a balkanized China, Russia and India. They live out of permanent war and esternal misery. Fortunately, at the rate things are going, Taiwan and mainland China will get closer and closer due to how incompetent the United States are.

Senior-Apartment-317

nagidon

Lol, talking about geopolitics without talking about American hegemony? 

If not for the fact that Politburo thinks staying in the current America-lead world order is still overall beneficial for China, Taiwan would  have already been a province of China. 

I guess US also knows about this part, and the fact that US benefits from it lead to the "official" stance of supporting the "status quo", i.e. de facto independence but no recognition of Taiwan. The leeway this stance provide is flexible enough to effectively create inconveniences and annoy, but not overly antagonize China. 

There is no point talking about Japan. US have too much leverage in Japan, it's impossible for Japan to act against the US' will. Willing  or not, Japan will be America's proxy against China. Whatever Japan does will always align with the American stance. 

I highly suspect Politburo's goal is not a new world order, but to slowly and progressively "inherit" and "carry on" America's position, seeing the US has done nothing but shooting itself in the foot in the last decade or so. If so, you can expect the status quo to not change in foreseeable future, at least not until the US falls off the throne or goes mad and decides to take on China by forces. 

So to my American friends: Get your shit together. Stop infighting. Strengthen your fundamentals, and build taller. 

You can ignore those harsh words by Chinese diplomats and stuff, because the propaganda department of CCP is the shittiest department of them all.

ilovecheats

[deleted]

i felt people may be mad because of real politiks. But unfortunately, countries like us, china or russia ( any with great size) must think in real politik.

Especially when situations like taiwans has ties with mainland china in the past. They have some moral ground or leagal ground to annex taiwan. Some may say its weak. But it is not non-existing.

We should face the reality instead of acting like not seeing it.

Brothers, welcome to international relationship 101. The world is not made by flowers or joy. One's joy may be harmful to the others (unless we are living in a world with unlimited resources which we are not at currently)

TraditionalSmoke9604

"I just want us to be richer." 

Right, HK taught you nothing?  

You (China) had the model for prosperity, but you chose government power (CCP control) as a nation.  I know there is no democracy, but your post exemplifies my point.  

Wealth is attained by trade, not war.  China will never gain anything from violently opposing its less unintelligent neighbours.

Better_Warthog3909

Damn... The only sane Chinese on this sub.

Everyone else wants to invade Taiwan or kill the Japanese or harass other SEA countries.

Hope there's more of you in China that thinks like you. You're a good dude.

Bitten_ByA_Kitten

I just had [a loooooooong discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskChina/s/MnJTgugjVN) about this in another r/AskChina thread.

In my opinion, the best solution which addresses all the parties' desires, concerns, and fears, and *which prioritizes the interest of the Taiwanese people*, which *should be the obvious priority when deciding the fate of Taiwan*, is a bullet-proof, multi-laterally-guaranteed neutrality-for-independence deal.

I have copy-pasted some broad terms from my original comment linked above for this hypothetical deal:

----

If security is the main concern, then China should trade a recognition of independence for a guarantee of neutrality:

* Taiwan will never acquire or seek to acquire nuclear weapons.
* Taiwan will never host foreign bases or foreign weapons or foreign military-related facilities or equipment.  (There would need to be some reasonable exceptions for limited-scale training exercises, emergency assistance - going both ways - for accidents or disasters, or the normal resupply of temporarily visiting warships in times of peace.)
* In the event of any conflict involving China, Taiwan will never:  
    * Provide any material aid, logistical support, intelligence, or any other kind of aid to China's enemies.
    * In any way hinder, compromise, or interfere with Chinese military operations.
* Taiwan must officially surrender all legacy claims to mainland China and SCS.

Any violation of these terms would give China *casus belli* to invade.

These terms *should* be acceptable to both China, the West, and Taiwan.  It addresses China's security concerns, it addresses Western economic and security concerns (regarding a Chinese takeover), and it most importantly it gives Taiwan the official status they desire and deserve.

----

Once Taiwan is officially a country, China is free to continue to pursue *peaceful* strategies - socially, economically, politically, diplomatically - toward eventual future reunification, *without the shadow and threat of war* constantly hanging over their head.

If China *proves itself worthy* of respect by the Taiwanese people, then maybe eventually they will warm to that idea.  They sure aren't happy about it now, while China consistently intimidates them with the threat of military force and violence.

ZippyDan

Geopolitically, this is an impasse, so I'm not optimistic that war could be avoided.

lolwut778

I am sure your take on why China wants Taiwan is accurate, and could probably be ideologized into a general "China needs to defend itself from the Western liberal democratic order and Taiwan is feeding chips to that order" 


But it's totally batshit. China has been the manufacturing powerhouse of the world for decades now and have profited so richly off of it. And Taiwan has really been a partner in this success. The worst China has really had to worry about is friction with Western ideas of multiculturalism and individualism.


NOBODY wants to invade China and destroy the industrial capacity that every company in the West has depended on to get high quality manu for the lowest possible price. 


It seemed to me that in the early 10s there were two groups in Chinese government, those who were interested in continuing to get rich off the West and raise a middle class, and the militarist / nationalists who were more interested in keeping the population angry about shit England and Japan did to them in the 19th and 20th centuries.


And unfortunately, the nationalists have been on top since Trump's first term.


And I just think it's a shame. It's true that the West and Japan have shit on China and done horrible things, wouldn't it be better to just double down on interlinking the Chinese economy with the rest of the world to become the world's number 1 economy? Be like haha now we make ALL your shit even if it says "made in America" 

You left out the US and EU? Also the global south DGAF.

Technical-Art4989

If you don't want war, take it up with your government. Remember that it's your government that is forcing war on others. No Russians want a war with Ukraine, and they are forced to fight

SamMerlini

Since ancient times Chinese rulers have always dreamed of a unified china and it did happen but u know sh** happens they break and fight each other again thats the same situation even today the mainland wants a unified china among other reasons so yeah they want it to protect trade routes and for geopolitical reasons but the idea of a unified china is  enough to stir conflict between mainland and the island

emperor2885

Selon moi, la question n’est pas de savoir si cette guerre aura lieu, mais quand. Que les enjeux soient géopolitiques, historiques ou militaires, peu importe au final. Le défilé chinois allait clairement dans ce sens. 
Le problème avec Taïwan est que ce conflit pourrait amener la Chine dans un engrenage militaire néfaste économiquement et politiquement. Apres, la Chine est une nation souveraine qui a annoncé depuis des décennies vouloir reprendre le contrôle de son territoire.

Sufficient_Bed2295

Which is why I think China will not start a war.

It will simply maintain current position, because if you maintain this, the US cannot annex Taiwan, which is good enough.

Efficient_Loss_9928

What if Taiwan were to sign a neutrality pact, and host Chinese military bases, in return for protection and a guarantee of sovereignty?

BlaggartDiggletyDonk

台湾岛能挪开就好了？

所以你觉得国土是可以随意放弃的？

martian_camel

ok Japan feels having China base in Taiwan will be too close to it and be a threat... isn't what Russia also said about Ukraine? Ukraine was trying to enter NATO so having NATO base in Ukraine was seen as a threat to Russia given its proximity... I am genuinely asking, did Japan condemn Russia's actions?

Damn-Sky

if it were china . china would run it    if china could take it they would of taken it.

theyhateme1

Some call it annexation, others call it unification.

Ok-Craft-3142

China has functioned under the "One Nation, Two Governments" doctrine for the last 80 years, but we are seeing that uneasy truce begin to fall away. I work as a teacher with international students, and the (many) Taiwanese students I have interacted with do not see themselves as Chinese but ethnically Taiwanese. They have voiced no desire to "take back" China and would prefer to just focus on their society and ways of life.

I wouldn't ask you to speak on behalf of all 1 billion-plus people in China, but if Taiwan were to formally secede from China (has been for 80 years, just without formal declaration), would China be willing to acknowledge Taiwan as a foreign nation for the sake of normalized relations?

Igiem

Taiwan’s not an aggressive enemy at all. Everything it does is to safeguard its own interests and security. But it sure is hard to play peaceful when China is sending dozens of aircraft across the Taiwan Strait median on a daily basis. Maybe China can look inward to figure out a better way to make Taiwan a friend and not an enemy.

SKramerwrites

Cultural_Plant_2627

If you’re tired of the debate don’t dignify it with your time.  Absolutely nothing said here, Tokyo or even Washington D.C. will have any effect on the ultimate outcome. Que sera sera.

asnbud01

Semiconductors have nothing to do with it?

ugen2009

If we don’t talk about history when it comes to territorial issues, then what should we talk about? Power?

jimmycmh

You’re also missing out on tsmc and getting their hands on an euv lithography machine. China is currently forced to be 10 or so years behind the west in terms of computing power.

VirtualPart7533

Most Chinese people are not deeply involved in politics; they care more about living peaceful and prosperous lives. Naturally, China’s main goal is peace, stability, and shared prosperity with other nations, including the United States. However, the reality is far more complex. The relationship between China and the U.S. has become a geopolitical struggle for global influence.

The U.S. views China’s rapid rise as a potential threat to its dominance in world affairs. As China grows stronger economically and technologically, Washington fears losing its position as the leading global power. Because of this, the U.S. takes measures to slow China’s progress through trade restrictions, military alliances, and political pressure on its neighbors.

Taiwan and Japan, two key players in the region, lack full political independence. Both are heavily influenced by U.S. policy and military presence. Japan hosts numerous American military bases, which serve as a constant reminder of U.S. control in East Asia. Taiwan, meanwhile, faces continuous political pressure from Washington, shaping many of its decisions and limiting its freedom to build closer ties with China.

If Japan and Taiwan were truly free to choose their own paths, they might seek peaceful cooperation and economic integration with China. As close neighbors with strong cultural and historical connections, they would likely benefit from collaboration and shared prosperity. However, the United States stands in the way of such unity, prioritizing its strategic interests and containment policy over the long-term peace and development of the region.

China has no choice but to forge its own independent path in today’s world. Compared to the challenges of the Cold War era, China’s current situation is far better. During the Cold War, China was caught between two superpower rivals: the Soviet Union and the United States and had to fight for its very survival. Despite being isolated and under immense pressure from both sides, China managed to endure and eventually emerge stronger.

Given that history, there is little doubt that China will overcome its present challenges as well. The ongoing rivalry with the United States may be intense, but China has become far more resilient, self-reliant, and capable than it was decades ago. Once this difficult period passes, China will likely emerge even stronger, both economically and politically,more confident in its own model of development and more determined to secure a peaceful and prosperous future on its own terms.

Moist-Bid2154

newsreddittoday

Who got big gun who wins, it happened before and it will happen again

CollectionCreepy

there is no debate, it's just the zionists, globalists, and the liberal world order people stirring things up

LopsidedPainting5742

Jazzlike_Set_32

You know full well the JSDF’s been trying to drag both China and the U.S. into a conflict. Forgot when the Suzutsuki “accidentally” entered China’s 12-nautical-mile zone? Don’t pretend anyone’s got the moral high ground here.

That-Elk2838

Given the recent domestic problems in Japan, the Japanese Prime Minister's remarks can only be seen as a form of nationalist propaganda. They even face restrictions on the use of force by their own Self-Defense Forces domestically; how could they possibly resort to force to intervene militarily abroad? 

Fearless_Ad_5470

It’s a lot more simpler than that 😂 The Taiwan strait is the most import trade corridor to East Asia.

Logical-Idea-1708

mephisblobeles

Iow, china wants to be the next world coloniser, that simple.

OkAsk1472

It's impossible to disregard the history factors.

niming_yonghu

Just tell me about you fair and free election of leaders papa

moomoodaddy23

你是中國人，我就用中文回你。其實一切已經在2020年就已經開始了。台灣當時的總統逼得中國沒有選擇。如今的一切只是當時的延伸罷了。

Certain_Donkey4995

Plenty-Celery-2860

Let me help. Taiwan = Taiwan. China = China. Japan = Japan.

No-Contribution1070

I thought Chinese ppl saw Taiwan as a province in revolt

CivilBlueberry424

Taiwan belongs to China and returned to China in 1945 as stated in Cairo Déclaration and Potsdam Declaration. Current  PRC government is the UN recognized government of China.   Taiwan is currently administered by those Chinese-speaking Japanese separationist (Lai Ching-te ) illegally. Those separationists will be killed if it happened in the US. Look at what happened during civil war in the US. The southern states were desperate to be independant yet the northern states would not allow it. Same thing in China.

Several_Lemon_1127

I feel China wants to annex Taiwan more than just its "geography factors". Taiwan is a remnant of its civil war, and it kinda is a catalyst for potential future succession movement.

Pension-Helpful

Personally, also tired of this discussion. But people (even the Chinese sometimes) always seems to forget that when push comes to shove, the will of the Chinese people practically doesn’t matter. Only the will of the person that’s leading the party from the Chinese side matters.

Naive? Of course. 

Is it too far from the truth? Unfortunately, no.

如果咱们家皇上今天就出兵突袭台湾，咱们可以怎么着？受着呗。

Alright, you can downvote me now.

pinewoodpine

"I have nothing personal against you. I just want your car, and if I have to stab you to get it, that's just business."

Greedy_Camp_5561

"I'm tired of debate so I'll just declare I know the internal thoughts of entire groups of people and that my interpretation is by fiat the truth."

ForestClanElite

The US tried to fence in and restrict Japan which in no small part lead to their aggressive expansion in ww2.


Literally the same thing happening again


Russia Ukraine is the same thing too


This isn't too say whether it's right or wrong, it's more a "if this then that" 


No country will take being closed in on lying down if they feel they can do sorting about it

KnifeEdge

Hey OP honest question I mean no disrespect, just form the outside looking in this quote 
“I just want us to be richer and fewer and fewer risks may be applied to the chinese in the future.”
I mean you guys are the most populous country, 2nd largest economy poised to become first, have one of the or the largest army depending how you count, have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world, etc…To me threatening to annex a small island that wants to be left alone seems like overkill 🤷‍♂️ but maybe you can provide some context I’m missing.

Mad2828

comically insane &amp; incoherent propaganda. ESL as a bonus

GrogRedLub4242

That isn't the only reason China wants to invade Taiwan. I don't even think it's the biggest reason. China is obsessed with sovereignty and territorial integrity, and Taiwan is the last piece of the puzzle, just as Hong Kong and Macau were

Thadsim07

Korea is the real military threat, not Taiwan. Taiwan would be a good naval base for China if they get it, but it poses little threat as an enemy base as an attack from Taiwan is not an easy task. When Japan colonize Taiwan 120 years ago, they stopped their progress over there and proceed on expanding through Korea because it is much closer to the political heart of China.

html_lmth

Taiwan is an enemy country? From what I see so far, they want nothing more than to be left the fuck alone.

Odd-Understanding399

Based take. If everyone could be friends, everything works better.

Look at us in Europe.

All things said... It's easier to do when everyone has similar sizes  and political systems.

But yeah, I'm sure if Taiwan could just move out of the way and not be in a strategic place, they would lol

Cless_Aurion

TLDR: I am a Chinese-Australian who wants the CCP to annex Taiwan as soon as possible. 

This whole Taiwan nonsense is currently affecting my daily life here in Australia. The notorious AUKUS deal is using my tax dollars to buy useless submarines from the US, all in preparation for a war with China. You can find our former PM Keating discussing whether Australia should support Taiwan in this video: [https://youtu.be/NyosROfDDXo?t=2213](https://youtu.be/NyosROfDDXo?t=2213)

China should stop giving these small countries excuses to spend my hard-earned money on war and instead focus on bringing lasting peace to the Asia Pacific.

kgux68

RIiiight nothing about controlling the semiconductor supply chain that determines the future of the human race

wolfofballstreet1

You describe Taiwan as a knife against China’s heart…I think that’s accurate not because of geographical reasons, but rather because of Taiwan’s political structure, freedoms, and success. Taiwan is a threat to CCP…not China.

Adorable-Let-6402

Correction: China cannot technically annex Taiwan as it is not a sovereign state.

thinkingperson

Of course this has everything to do with history and by ignoring it, people are deliberately hiding who's actually behind the mess we’re in today.


It all started with the Western colonial powers, especially the British Empire, who first broke East Asia apart. They set it up so that China, Japan, and Korea would fight each other, instead of maintaining the stable civilizational hierarchy that had existed for centuries, with China as the central power.


Let’s start with the drug pusher British Empire and their banker partners. Britain had a trade deficit with China because they wanted tea, porcelain, and silk, but China didn’t need anything from them. So what did they do? They used opium to flip the trade balance. Not just any opium, but opium grown in British-controlled South Asia (mainly India), then trafficked into China.


But it wasn’t just white British traders doing this. They also used Baghdadi Jewish merchant networks, especially the Sassoon family, who became the middlemen for opium distribution into Chinese ports like Shanghai and Canton. These guys worked directly with British shipping firms, Indian opium farms, and local Chinese gangs like the Green Gang, which later became a key supporter of Chiang Kai-shek and also later the Chinese Triad across asia after CCP full crackdown. 


The whole structure was a criminal cartel disguised as trade. It created millions of addicts, collapsed the Qing economy, and corrupted every level of Chinese governance. It also enriched a lot of Western and American families. People forget that a lot of the early elite families in the U.S like the Forbes, Delano (FDR’s family), Russell &amp; Co., Perkins, and others also made big money from the China trade, especially opium. That money went into U.S. railroads, Ivy League universities, and the foundations that still shape U.S. foreign policy today.


While the British destroyed China with drugs, they also used missionaries and cult infiltration to tear apart Chinese spirituality. The Taiping Rebellion is a perfect example its leader, Hong Xiuquan, thought he was Jesus’s younger brother. His rebellion wiped out 20–30 million people and destroyed Buddhist, Taoist, and Confucian temples, trying to erase China’s civilizational soul. Western powers didn't stop it. They let it burn until China was so weakened that they could take more land and ports.


At the same time, in Japan, the U.S. was forcing their hand too. During the Shogunate era, Commodore Perry showed up with his Black Ships in 1853 and threatened war unless Japan opened its ports. The Treaty of Kanagawa was signed soon after. It opened Japan, and from there the U.S. and Europe started working on shaping Japan from the inside.


One key figure here is Yoshida Shōin. He secretly tried to board Perry’s ship. We don’t know exactly what happened, but it’s likely he was exposed to Western strategic thinking or some kind of long-term guidance. When he returned, he started a private school inside his home: Shōka Sonjuku. That school produced many of the future leaders of Meiji Japan. Basically the new ruling class after the fall of the Tokugawa Shogunate.


Some of his students:

Itō Hirobumi (Japan’s first prime minister)

Yamagata Aritomo (founder of Imperial Japanese Army)

Kido Takayoshi (core Meiji planner)

Takasugi Shinsaku (military radical)



These were the people who overthrew the old system, installed the emperor as a symbolic puppet, and started industrializing Japan under Western influence. The British supported them with weapons, trade, and advice. Mostly through arms dealers like Thomas Blake Glover and Japanese traders connected to European shipping lines.


Later, Japan sent elites to Europe and America for formal education called "the Iwakura Mission" and they came back ready to build a Western-style state. That’s how Japan “modernized” so quickly: it was guided, funded, and approved by Western powers who wanted to use Japan as a buffer against China.


Japan’s first imperial target was Korea, which was still under Chinese (Qing) protection. Japan used secret societies like the Black Dragon Society (Kokuryūkai) to infiltrate Korean independence movements and destabilize the government. They even assassinated Queen Min, who leaned toward Russia. At the time, China and Japan had signed a treaty agreeing that if either moved troops into Korea, they had to inform the other. Japan broke that by starting a rebellion using their proxies, then claimed China had violated the treaty when they sent troops to stabilize things.


That was the excuse for the First Sino-Japanese War in 1894.

Japan, with its new British-made modern navy, crushed China especially at sea. China was forced to give up:

Taiwan

Liaodong Peninsula

Big cash reparations


But even then, when Japan gained Liaodong, the Western powers forced them to give it up (Triple Intervention). Japan obeyed. They still wanted to please their Western masters. The whole thing was ritual humiliation for China, and Japan was just the tool.

notreal3839399393

As a Taiwanese, taiwan is zero threat to china. You guys want to annex us because of greed and pride.

pumpfaketodeath

The underlying politics is probably more complicated than that.

DaimonHans

bro u think today matters?im a old millennial from asia now, i have witnessed so many things in the 2000s and 2010s, things that at one point in that very moment seems so important.....iraq and afganistan war,2008 financial crisis and the subsequent great depression and 3 q.e.s for the next 6,7 years.....the rise of isis in 2012 and jihadi john,charlie hedbo......the outrage over the iraq war and the constant political and media battles over the war was so much greater back in the 2000s and early mid 2010s,the death toll of iraq war which has reached almost 200,000 civilians and 25,000 combatants by 2010.

Yes, available data from the Iraq War suggests that the number of civilians killed was significantly higher than the number of killed insurgents (terrorists/anti-occupation forces). Independent monitoring groups and studies provide a range of estimates for total deaths, but consistently show a higher civilian toll:

* The **Iraq Body Count (IBC)** project, which compiles data from media reports, morgues, hospitals, and NGOs, recorded at least 185,194 – 208,167 violent civilian deaths through June 2020.
* An analysis of WikiLeaks data by the IBC for the period from 2003 to 2011 estimated that 79% of all Iraqi deaths were civilians. The data estimated approximately 114,212 civilian deaths compared to about 20,499 "enemy" (insurgent/terrorist) deaths reported in the logs.

......2011 tsunami and the reactor meltdown,eygpt "revolution", obama , libya, yemen even today gen z treats 9/11 as more of a joke/meme which would be unthinkable back in the 2000s or early mid 2010s.....

....back then the political and morality debate and intensity of iraq and middle east was just as great as ukraine and gaza today except it went on for a decade even more, while ukraine was hot for maybe 2 or 3 years.....most gen z probably wasnt aware or cognizant of most of it since they were too young or immature during the 2000s or early to mid 2010s. then there was the obamacare that republicans tried to undermine and destroy for 6 years in congress.....and then there was the exxon disaster and the deepwater horizon.....

in 20 years time,whatever that happens today will fade away from living human memory even from the ones who lived through it......it would mean less and less to the subsequent generations. every future generation would be even more clueless,especially if ur mass media refrain from ever bringing up

99.9 percent of america and western audiences knows of china and the tiananmen square incident in 1989 because its brought up about 150 times a year for the last 30 something years.

but what percent of americans and the west knows that taiwan was not a democracy until the very end of the 20th century?for nearly have a century taiwan and south korea were dictatorships.....im a millennial and i can assure u i have never seen the western media bring up that inconvenient fact once during the 2000s or early 2010s,only discovering by accident during the 2010s including things like palestine....... and that they too have their own version of tiananmen spanning nearly 4 decades which killed 100 times more people....and imprisoned nearly 130,000 taiwanese over the span of 4 decades? known as the bai she kong bu or "white terror"

u will never see taiwan or south korea condemned or ostracised by the west or western media or audiences or their supporters for the same horrors or immoralities and atrocities.....or us role in it yes america even supported the korean and taiwanese governments in suppressing the uprisings,they were actually afraid what might happen if taiwans or south koreas dictatorships fell and what the populace might do last but not least rebel against the us....remember this usa supports all dictatorships even brings them to power......as long as they are right wing or anti socialist,and obeys the united states.....taiwan and south korea are not borned out of democracy, they were forged in the crucible of authoritarian govts including their economies and economic success and believe me when i say alot of that culture shaped and mold their societies,culture and economy even till this day......singapore is another pseudo democratic country....

,except for a small minority of left leaning liberal channels that still possesses a conscience or a handful of intellectuals in america that speaks out against it even though their voices are drowned out by the us media and propaganda machine. people like noam chomsky or seymour hersh.

my point is .......whatever atrocity, what ever grave transgressions or crimes against humanity u commit, one day it would forgotten by most of the world and they might not even hold the perpetrators account to it and even cheapen or trivialise it.....except of course for the victims and the ones whose 

  
always remember might makes right in this world,the european and anglos and faux americans have proven it the last 200 years.........u have nothing to lose.....history is urs to recreate with hollywood movies and false narratives repeated over and over until the most grotesque lies and misshaped .....becomes the gospel truth.......

i can name u the 30,40,50 south american, middle eastern , asian and even african countries US and her friends have destroyed from 2020s all the way back to 1945, never mind the hundreds of millions of lives they ruined but the tens of millions the US killed.....just a handful of those wars have a combined death toll of 10 million.

frenchbriefs

"Annex taiwan", more like political reunification.

Micronex23

After the end of World War II, Article 8 of the Potsdam Proclamation clearly stipulates:**"The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine."**

The Cairo Declaration clearly affirmed that Japan should "return all territories taken by force." That is to say, the Ryukyu Islands seized by Japan during the war also need to be returned. 

**The Ryukyu Islands are not Japan's legitimate territory, but rather land seized by the other side through war and aggression. The indigenous people of the Ryukyu Islands have the right to independence.** 

When you mention Japanese territory, you're not referring to the Ryukyu Islands, are you? I'm sorry, but they're not Japanese territory.

Mindless-Cellist-543

Japan is a US lapdog who has no say in what it wants to do.  Same with South Korea.  Taiwan is controlled by the DPP (US proxy) who are ordered to walk the fine line to fuck with China.  This is all about geopolitics where the dying hegemon is clashing with the previous dominant hegemon of the past.

tenchichrono

差不多得了😅内网混不下去了跑外网来当理中客了是吧

Dangerous_Bar6733

ITT: WHITE-WESTERN CODED reddit trying to spread their bullshit to preserve the American empire

They want to freeze history because it suits them just fine

cyanatreddit

Tawian já é da china ...ninguém mais no mundo tem poder sobre a China pq a China já é uma superproteção mundial...pra Tawian se render a China e só uma questão de tempo.

LooseWar5512

Yes, exactly. The historical debate is just the sides trying to get justification for modern plans. The reality has nothing to do with the past but everything to do with the future

RunningRampantly

Yall could have played nice, but noooo~ China does what China does

Chemical-Arm-154

Please allow me to speak in rather blunt terms about this matter—if Taiwanese people don't reunify with China, their only fate is to  become lap dogs of either the Japanese or Americans. Beyond its political significance, this island actually holds very little "geographical" importance. Taiwan Island was originally established by a group of Ming and Dutch pirates, with the aim of facilitating Trans-Atlantic trade. Japanese rōnin also participated in various "colonization" processes across Southeast Asia during that era. But as for strategic importance for the Ming or Qing dynasties? It hardly registered. The significance of this island to China lies in the fact that throughout China's millennia of history, there have been multiple instances of exiled regimes establishing states in the south or on islands. History has proven that only through achieving "north-south unification" can Chinese civilization rejuvenate and usher in an era of renaissance. Frankly, aside from displaced people in southern China, island dwellers, or exiled regimes, no Chinese person is content to remain merely a "Pacific islander." Every Chinese carries the memory of what Chinese culture was like at its peak. Present-day China finds itself in a situation similar to the Sui Dynasty or the period before Kublai Khan's Yuan Dynasty unified China. So taking that final step is inevitable.

ChanceMap7906

Taiwan doesn’t want to be  annexed by China because 1) democracy 2) national pride and 3) the biggest and most obvious reason is… if a community of people has been governing themselves for 75 years, they simply don’t want another country taking over.

If you call China threatening Taiwan with total war, “nothing personal to the japanese or taiwanese. It is just pure international relationship and pure business.” Then you lack any sense of morals and you are really just a complete psychopath. Learn some humanity, you brainwashed peasant. Not everything is about you and how much money you can get.

brian2707

To summarize your summary — Japan doesn’t want the CCP to bully Japan for the CCP’s selfish gains. Taiwan doesn’t want the CCP to bully Taiwan for the CCP’s selfish gains. The CCP wants to bully countless countries, including Japan and Taiwan, for the CCP’s selfish gains.

WillieDoggg

和统呗，少死人  
台湾岛能挪开也就不会有给光头逃的地方了呀哎

Icy_Pudding6493

Even_Leading8726

It could be visualized a future switzerland, Liechtenstein status quo position related to neutral power in whatever conflicts position to that matter of discussion and rest has chinese language self recognized territory acvording to their true historical heritage status

Fickle-Decision1374

PayLimp1823

You're not going to mention the technically unresolved civil war?

ChZakalwe

Nice username ending in 4 digits .  Most posts that create engagement are ending in 4 digits these days.

peathah

If we go by traditional rules of conquest in any civil war, the CCP beat the Kuomintang in the Chinese civil war, so all of China (which at that time included Taiwan) should be governed by the CCP. 


If we go by ethnicity and nationalism, then the entire reason western powers want to keep Taiwan as a separate entity is the same reason they wanted HK to remain unique. 


The Taiwanese themselves didn't want to secede from china. It was the Kuomintang who occupied Taiwan and made them leave. 

pikachewww

“Get rid of the historical factors” the whole situation is based on that dude

PracticalSolution100

如果大多數人能像你這樣想就好了，但以你們政府培育人的方式根本就是都免談。

Umbranight2009

China is trhing to annex a free country. Shouldnt that be enough?

Fabulous-Chard3987

Budget-Impress-6643

세계무역을 보호 ㅋ ㅋ ㅋ ㅋ ㅋ ㅋ ㅋ 농담하는거지? ㅋ ㅋ ㅋ

Fit_Original_8492

I agree with your point of view on peace. But it's a bit too unrealistic, even if there is no Taiwan, there will be other "wan". And you are obviously oversimplifying the problem, and want to use pure rationality to judge the complex problems full of rationality and sensibility. At the same time, you want to put aside the very important factor of history, culture, and identity, which is no problem, but with the word "annex", it seems that this expresses your views on history again. 
I don't care about these trivial international issues, but your remarks are rather strange.

long2er1

Tensions have escalated between China and Japan following comments by Japan's Prime Minister about military responses to Chinese aggression towards Taiwan, leading to diplomatic and trade fallout.

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